Denise Baker, co-managing partner of WeirFoulds, on municipal law, work-life balance and AI

Denise Baker is the co-managing partner of WeirFoulds. Her firm was one of the Top 10 Ontario Regional Firms in 2023.

Baker's practice focuses on municipal and land use planning issues and related litigation.

For our CL Talk podcast, she spoke to us about municipal and planning law, integrating AI technology cautiously, and her firm’s commitment to work-life balance, diversity, and the ongoing development of young lawyers through structured training and mentorship.

Listen to our full podcast episode here:

This episode can also be found on our CL Talk podcast homepage, which includes links to follow CL Talk on all the major podcast providers.

Below is a summary of the conversation, edited for length and clarity:

What drew you to municipal and planning law?

I completed my undergraduate degree in political science at Mount Allison University in Sackville, New Brunswick, where I took some urban and regional planning courses that I found interesting. When it was time for law school, I discovered a joint program at Queen's University that allowed me to pursue a master's in urban planning and a law degree simultaneously. This program greatly appealed to me, so I enrolled. Since then, I have exclusively practiced this type of law and love it.

How did your previous role working in-house influence your practice at WeirFoulds?

In-house roles for municipal and planning lawyers are typically within municipalities. I worked for six years with the town of Oakville, which provided invaluable experience. This role allowed me to oversee projects from start to finish, from the initial application to the issuance of building permits. This comprehensive perspective differs from the private sector, where lawyers might only handle litigation before the Ontario Land Tribunal. Understanding the municipal process helps me think through problems, even when I'm only involved in a portion of it now.

When you tell clients you have worked in-house does it lend more credibility to your advice?

Yes. I represent some municipalities that value my municipal experience. My non-municipal clients, typically developers or landowners, appreciate that I've seen both perspectives. This helps me understand the viewpoints of opposing parties, such as municipalities, in development disputes. This dual experience is beneficial, and I would encourage others to work on both sides for a comprehensive approach to solving clients' problems.

How do you and your co-managing partner divide responsibilities and ensure effective collaboration?

My co-managing partner, Wayne Egan, is a senior partner in securities law, while I specialize in litigation. This complementary dynamic is beneficial because our busy periods in transactions and litigation often differ, allowing us to effectively support each other's client responsibilities. We meet regularly as part of the management committee and frequently with our COO to review our strategy and address challenging issues. While we have some defined responsibilities, such as recruitment, our roles adapt to our schedules and client needs. Our differing strengths and personalities help us tackle various issues effectively.

The co-managing role is crucial in this demanding profession, ensuring we are available for our partners, lawyers, and staff. I have genuinely enjoyed this role. We are fortunate to have an excellent COO handling day-to-day administration, allowing us to focus on the firm's best interests. Our shared commitment ensures we work together well to manage the firm.

What are WeirFoulds' key strategic priorities for the next few years, and how do you plan to achieve them?

Our key strategic priorities are serving our clients through excellent legal offerings. This involves focusing on technology, recruitment, the evolving role of lawyers, and work-life balance. We ensure our young lawyers are well-trained and receive ongoing coaching and mentoring, especially with the rise of remote work.

Our next priority is our people. We aim to equip them with the necessary skills to adapt to technological changes, provide robust career plans, and ensure they thrive in this challenging, post-COVID business environment. We want to be an attractive place for career development and are committed to building the next generation of leaders within the firm.

Technology is another primary focus. We leverage AI and other advancements to simplify our work and enhance client service, ensuring our offerings remain comprehensive and effective.

How is WeirFoulds harnessing artificial intelligence?

We're approaching this cautiously and not rushing in. Due to the uncertainty of this technology, we're not racing to be the first. Currently, a group of partners, with the help of an external consultant, is trialling various emerging products to test their accuracy and efficiency.

Our priority is to ensure the technology is beneficial and widely adopted within the firm, as bringing in costly new tech that no one uses is counterproductive. We're testing it across different practice areas, including litigation and corporate law. Although we are still in the early stages and not ready for a firm-wide rollout, we recognize that AI is a significant and enduring trend. We are committed to finding ways for AI to enhance our client offerings.

What initiatives do you have to promote diversity and inclusion?

We take diversity and inclusion very seriously. A few years ago, we brought in a director of EDI to educate us and focus our strategy. We also have an EDI committee chaired by Dan Wong, head of employment and a management committee member, ensuring a direct line to management.

We've conducted several staff surveys to gather baseline information and have implemented a three-year EDI strategy. We aim to make the firm reflect our city's diversity, creating an environment where all individuals can thrive in their careers. We want our clients to see our people thriving and feel part of our vibrant community.

How do you support young lawyers and what advice would you give them when entering your firm?

Junior lawyers thrive by having positive experiences with senior lawyers, often achieved through in-person interactions. While virtual hearings and calls can work, being in the office part-time is essential for practical training and spontaneous collaboration. Structured training, continuing professional development, one-on-one mentorship, and continuous feedback are also crucial.

Essential advice for junior lawyers includes staying curious, continually improving research and writing skills, and focusing on clarity and detail in written communication. Networking is vital; build relationships with peers who will advance their careers alongside you. Manage your time efficiently to maintain work-life balance, especially in the work-from-home environment. Stay resilient and find healthy ways to manage stress. Above all, always uphold the highest standards of professionalism and ethics.

How do you manage work-life balance, and what measures does WeirFoulds take to support its lawyers?

I was once called a unicorn because I began my career at a prominent Bay Street firm, went in-house at the Town of Oakville, and now I’m back. During this time, I had three children and a husband who travelled a lot for work as an airline pilot. Managing this requires a strong focus on work-life balance, which I support for all our partners, lawyers, and staff.

Work-life balance doesn’t exist every day. It's all work during busy weeks with hearings, so I organize my life accordingly. Use downtime wisely – sometimes it's all life and less work. Stay organized and efficient during the day, and always take your vacation for mental health. Find a way to vacation that works for you, even if it means staying partially connected.

Learning to delegate is a lesson I continue to embrace. At the firm, we prioritize mental health, offer support, and provide resources like employee assistance programs and seminars on stress management, sleep, and healthy eating. This holistic approach is critical for success in our demanding profession.

How has the hybrid work model impacted your firm, and what are your plans going forward?

The firm has a three-day-a-week in-office policy, with Tuesday as the anchor day. This approach helps ensure our lawyers thrive, junior lawyers receive proper training, and they keep pace with their peers. However, this policy raises practical challenges regarding office space, especially with empty offices on Mondays and Fridays. We are consulting with external experts to address these space issues and consider options like hotelling offices.

Historically, lawyers were often not in the office when they had court appearances and tribunal visits. While these out-of-office tasks are less common now, we continue to adapt. I don't foresee returning to a five-day office week, as the advantages of the hybrid model are clear. Our priority is ensuring excellent client service and maintaining our staff's well-being.

The question is not remote versus in-person, but what do we do on Monday and Friday with the office?

We also need to consider our community obligations. If all the towers are empty on Mondays and Fridays, what does that mean for businesses in downtown Toronto? We want our services to be available and ready, but being absent 20 percent of the week has implications. We need to be mindful of this as well.